2011 Board Meeting Minutes

RIVER OAKS ASSOCIATION BOARD MEETING

MINUTES 2011

JANUARY 20, 2011

BOARD MEMBERS IN ATTENDANCE: BILL STOEBIG, GREG BASS, BRIAN CONWAY, JOHN SKALBACK, and JIM LASAGE.

OTHER MEMBERS ATTENDING: DAN NOAH, RUSS SHILBILSKI, RON NERVA.

Bill Stoebig called the meeting to order at 7:40. Bill invited Russ and Ron to discuss their issues. We have had problems with people fishing on the lake who are not residents. The other night there were 14 fishermen on the lake. Russ said the big concern is that when questioned people have been getting very irritated and belligerent. The problem has escalated into trash being on the lake, as well as other issues. Ron brought up the issue as to having a pass-they must have a pass. Bill said that that was a way to allow guests to fish there. Ron said that the bylaws say an association member must be with the guest. Bill suggested that we develop stickers or some kind of marker. John said that the covenants have evolved, and that the practice has been the resident will go out and check with the person. If you don’t believe them, then call the local police. He stated we have been in the process of going back to the original bylaws. Brian said there used to be a plastic pass. Brian said that if someone came over and had a pass, you shouldn’t have to go with them. Dan advised that he had some friends that came out; he gave them a small pass. Russ suggested that we have stickers and develop a pass with a name and a date. Ron said you have to hold the home owner responsible and accountable. Therefore, there should be a pass. He suggested a laminated pass be used. There should be a time limit on a pass. There is no public access to the lake. Dan volunteered to do the pass. We need to post a sign that says the vehicle will be towed. Greg said we should do Lake passes as well as daily pass. The action item is a pass design and a review mirror hanger. Brian said that we need to include in the new rules and regulations in the new book. John suggests that the pass is not good for more than 2 unescorted guests – people. A motion was made by Bill that there should be the following:

A program that includes:

  1. 2 unescorted guests by a pass.
  2. Must be a rearview mirror pass as well
  3. A Towing sign will be put up and cars can be towed at the owner’s expense.

The passes will be distributed upon payment of the dues. The passes will be good for a one year term renewed each year.

Jim Lasage seconded the motion. The motion passed unanimously.

Dan said he will do the passes. He also said he has someone who can make the passes.

John Skaalbach made a motion to approve the last minutes from the annual meeting. They were approved.

Treasurers Report:

Ron said we have $7555.48 in bank. $7311.94 in an interest bearing account. And a balance of $243 in the checking account. The property tax was $66. He paid that. There are four people who remain unpaid. The intention is to send notice out to remind them that they are in arrears. Ron is handcuffed with membership list. Greg indicated that he would go to the village and get a list from the village. The board approved that we request a QuickBooks tutor.

Committee Reports:

Lakes:

John said he got a letter from the DNR. He read the letter. Natural body of water permit. Based on the description we do not require a natural body permit. So we get a refund of $50. John will scan letter in and send to Greg. We have a live stock premises form that we have to complete. The fish farm allows us to have treatment without DNR approval. Now they’re saying we don’t need a permit, we just to need to renew the form. Ron asked what is the consequence of not having the classification. John said we have the classification. Since the lake is not a natural lake, we do not have to pay for a permit. But we have to do an agricultural livestock permit classified as a fish farm. We do not need a natural water body permit. John was going to fill out the form to get $50 back. John needs the tax payer Id number. Ron said he would get to John.

John said as regular planning we will plan to do treatment early in the spring. At some time we should discuss reviewing the fish stocking menu. Bill said based on the past electro-schocking treatment the lake is in pretty good condition. The lake is in good shape fish wise. The carp extraction was not good, but the new gate will stop new carp from coming into the lake. We have time to consider. Ron said, he thought we were going to give consideration to other people to do the lake treatment. Jeff Bloxdorf was going to do that. John said the DNR said the firm we’re using is one of the best. What do we gain, because the people know our lake. The pricing has remained relatively the same over the years. Bill said that Jeff’s complaint was that they came in late in the year. The concern is to get them out here earlier in the year. John said he is not personally inclined to look for someone else. Jim said it $4102. Brian said Jeff was going to check into it for this year. Bill said he will call Jeff tomorrow and see what he can do to check out other sources. Ron said its one of our biggest expenses. Ron suggested that we just check the pricing as an obligation to the association members as well as prudent.

Roads and Grounds:

Brian said he will be getting bids for the maintenance of parks and entry areas. He said he will get bids to do the maintenance of the prairie areas. He has not addressed issues with the lights. He said that we’re going to get a price for motion sensor lights on the pavilion. Brian said he fixed the light that was broken. He also said an outlet needed to be fixed. Brian discussed the collection of the trash. Brian said Steinbrink wrote him back and said we could purchase containers at $95. We do not pay taxes on park. We pay $15 for leaf collection etc. is paid by property owners on their tax bills. If we want to we can buy the cans. For $95 + $15 we can get the largest. The board discussed just having one large can. Brian said we’ll chain to the pavilion and the guy we hire can disconnect and put in the place for the trash.

Jim Lasage made a motion to purchase one or two trash cans. Ron seconded and the board approved.

Architectural: No report

New Business: Jim brought up the idea that there is another sex offender in the area. The location of these offenders is on a public web site.

Old Business:

Rules and regulations. Greg said he separated the covenants and directory. Brian said he knew what the regulations were and he would separate them. Bill gave Greg the language that should be expunged from the covenants. Bill also gave Greg the legal letter advising that such language should be separated from the covenants and placed in a separate section titled rules and regulations. Brian said that we are allowed to do that. John said we decided we would add a new section, Part E called rules and regulations. The board cannot make changes in the by-laws. We also are not going to change the covenants. Such changes cannot be done without 100% association approval. So we are creating a new set of rules and regulations, update the directory, and retype the by-laws and covenants. Greg said he will send Dan the original files in email format and he said he would retrieve and do files.

Brian made the motion to ask Steve Predania if he would remove himself from the board and allow Dan Noah to replace him. Jim Lesage seconded the motion. The boarded voted 5 with one abstention to approve.

Website: Dan created a website that he put together a website that works for us to put in place. Dan put the wording together. Dan said he has an issue with a directory listing due to private information. Dan said there would be a frequently asked questions. Bill discussed secure items. Can we create a different data base for private information? There was a discussion about doing a hard copy directory. John said we should do a directory but we wouldn’t need to do the bylaws in print after this year. We would just put them on the website. Dan said other associations have not put the directory on the website. Dan said we need to find a domain name because there are other river oaks. Dan said he would get back to us as to pricing. The hosting is separate from the domain. Dan said he could maintain, but added that there should be a first person, a second person and then a third person. Bill made a motion to allow Dan to get the domain name, edited the present site and then bring back to the board a revised website page for approval. The vote was unanimous.

Jim made a motion to adjourn. Greg seconded and the motion was approved. The meeting was adjourned at 9:40.

Minutes of February 24, 2011 Meeting

The board did not have a quorum present. Present were Bill Stoebig, Steve Predania, Jeff Blosdorf, and Greg Bass.

  1. Bill Stoebig opened the meeting. He introduced Larry Leihting who has done our lawn care for the past four years. Larry offered a proposal with no cost changes. He also discussed extra items that his firm did, such as raking the beach several times on July 4th. He also discussed the trimming of trees and other things that his firm does that are not necessarily covered under the contract. Jeff asked about how long it takes to do the lawn. Larry said that he doesn’t know because his workers do that. His two sons do the lawn. Bill advised that he thought Larry has done a good job. Bill discussed making some of the fishing points. Brian said that it involves more work than just trimming. Brian asked Larry if he would be interested in other small projects that we are bidding. The contract for such Lawn service is on an annual contract. The cost is $5,332.93. Larry reduced it from the original $5,522.93 because of a line item change. The contract allows for cutting 25 times which Larry said they did more than that. Steve asked about the gas prices going up. Brain said that we will discuss it and let Larry know.
  2. Brian and Bill discussed bidding the Lawn Care contract. Brian said there were other firms who wanted to make a bid.
  3. Steve Predania discussed the idea of passes that was passed last meetings. Steve said he wanted to go back to the regulation that they must be escorted by a member of the association. Brian discussed the reason for passes rather than mandating an escort. Steve discussed the idea of mandating use of beach must have an escort. According to Bill we’re going to use parking permits that hang from mirror. Bill also said there was a parking pass which is mandatory. Steve said that it is important that the local police have a copy of the policy. Jim Lasage had investigated the towing issue and in his email Steve discussed that a board member must be present. Steve asked what happens if you two a resident. Steve discussed that we have to put a note out to all of the members. We are going to put signs up notifying people of the towing. It was discussed that if the people trespassing on the lake did not park in the lot but on the road, we can’t tow them. Steve suggested a policy that would say, “Unauthorized person using the lake would be asked to leave or be fined.” That policy should be on file with the police, so we can have trespassers removed. The language was discussed that a member of the board must meet the tow truck driver. Steve said if the policy is on file with the police, and then the police can remove the trespassers.
  4. We also discussed the lights and who’s knocking the lights down. We do not have lights at the park anymore. Steve talked about getting a deer camera to catch the perpetrator.
  5. Greg and Bill discussed the Kenosha County website in order to determine new addresses, directory, and membership to send dues out to.
  6. Greg and Brian and Jeff discussed the old by-laws and covenants and restrictions. Brian discussed the covenants and restrictions. He said we should be able to add or change. We discussed the action as to the redoing of the bylaws and restrictions.
  7. There was no treasurer’s report.
  8. Lakes Committee:

The company doing the lakes came over and discussed with Jeff the redoing of the service. A new firm, Wisconsin lake and Pond resource, gave us a quote using aqua hall. John Skaalbach asked to sonar to do the lake survey. Jeff said he thinks Marine Bio-Chemist has too many customers. Jeff discussed that Wisconsin Lakes and Pond Resource, LLC. Would come early and use sonar. The process takes 30 days. The problem seems to be that Marine Biochemist- starts too late. Jeff said that Integrated Lakes used 6 parts per million at two treatments at a cost of $4,000. Jeff said Wisconsin Lakes and Pond. Jeff said that two years in arrow it’s been done too late. So, he would like to switch because Wisconsin Lake & Pond Resource, LLC seemed more professional and the sonar is cheaper than the Aqua hall treatment. The board needs to make a decision in March because the treatment needs to be done in April. Aqua hall is a spot treatment. The price is per acre. The lake is 25 acres. The quote to do the Aqua hall was $600 an acre or around $15000.

Brian said, that the river’s high, but he checked the new gate. The river is up higher than the opening of the gate. He said there was no water movement, and he closed the gate. Jeff discussed that closing can make the lake too high and it floods one of the member’s decks.

Jeff is getting a new proposal that he will email to everyone. In the past we used an Aqua hall spot treatment. There was discussion about having a special meeting via email to vote. Jeff will talk with John Skaalbach who is the lakes committee chairman.

  1. Grounds:

Brian said we talked about the Lawn care proposal. Brian said he is still waiting to contact the ladies to do the gardening. Brian said he will go to a couple of suppliers about heavy duty lights. Brian used adhesives to fix it but did not put it back. Brian said they want $1500 to replace a pole. Steve suggested we talk to the village about putting up a street light. Brian said we talked about that, but at the time it was not feasible. But he couldn’t remember what the problem was.

  1. Architectural: No report
  2. Technology.

The vote on the Website name selected was www.river-oaks.org.

Dan will do the website.

  1. Bill will do the next meeting on March 09, at 7:30. We will then decide the rest of the year as to meetings and who will host meetings.

The meeting was adjourned.

River Oaks Board Meeting March, 2011

Members present – Bill Stoebig, Jeff Bloxdorf, John Skalbeck and Brian Conway at Bill’s house.

Treasurer’s Report was not available. Dues notices need to be distributed

Roads and Grounds –

The gate is functional and at the current time is allowing water to flow out. Typically, this time of year the gate is left open so we maintain a lower level in the lake in case spring brings unusually high rainfall.

It was decided to have Larry Leiting continue with the grass cutting service for the common areas. Brain verified his contract price is the same for the next three years.

Wisconsin Electric has quoted a price of $1500 to install a light pole at the parking area by the park. The price includes maintenance and repairs. River Oaks will pay for the monthly electric usage.

The front entrance planting area will be addressed. Ginni Fenema has voiced interest in heading up the project. She will be asked to come up with a plan for the next Board meeting.

Lake Committee-

3 companies quoted on the weed treatment. Below is a summary of each:

Wisconsin Lake and Pond

Theirs is not comparable to others because they quoted Sonar, not Aquathall. 1 treatment at 10 to 12 ppb would be $5,351

Marine Biochemists

2 whole lake treatments of Sonar starting late April (once lake temperature is above 50). $3,725

Aquatic Biologists

2 whole lake treatments once ice is off lake at 6 ppb $3,202

Discussion amongst Board members had differing opinions. One thought was that higher concentrations and an earlier application would be preferable. However, Board decided to go with the 2 treatments at the 6 ppb concentration, with an earlier application. Prior years had the 2 treatments at 6 ppb, but were later (in May). Last year we experienced a large week growth. If the earlier application doesn’t work effectively, we should try the one application at the higher concentration. Marine Biologists will do 2 treatments, but earlier than last year, at least by April 15th. We need to monitor the progress for future treatment decisions.

Next meeting at John Skalbeck’s house

River Oaks Board Meeting

April 14, 2011

Members present: Bill Stoebig, Lance Mazzolini, John Skalbach, Brian Conway, Jeff Bloxdorf, Greg Bass, and Dan Noah.

Bill Stoebig called the meeting to order at 7:40 PM:

The minutes for February and March were approved.

Treasurer’s report: All bills have been paid. There is $7430 in the Money market account and $5312 in the checking account.

Committee Reports:

Roads and Grounds:

Brian contacted Larry Liehting and his contract will be continued. Brian talked with Ginny about front landscaping. Ginny Fenema has plans that she’s drawn up. She will be contacting several ladies to do planning and planting. She’s preparing a planting scheme. The idea is to plan perennials and shrubs. The shrubs that block the signs will come out. They will use plants from the neighborhood. Brian gave a wholesale price for removal of the shrubs, and provided of other materials like soil. $660 was the funds needed for the project. The board voted and approved to supply the funds for the project to redo the entry ways.

Brian met with WE energies at the park about the lighting. He discussed options. WE energy suggested a wood pole with a light out over the park like a street light. The light chosen is recessed so it casts and elliptical light pattern back into the park and also lights up the parking lot as well as the port a potty. Maintenance is included. The price for the light was $1719. We energies will also maintain the light. The other lights will be abandoned and the concrete will be removed. The pole will be 25 feet high. There will be a $15 a month usage fee. We will pay for the light up front; there is an $8 per month facility charge. The board moved and accepted Option B, paid up front, to pay for the light.

Lake Committee:

Marine Bio chemist applied the first treatment. John said, they went over three different bids and stayed with Marine Biochemist. The idea of starting earlier was emphasized was discussed by John with the company. So, Marine Biochemist came up on March 8th and checked, and therefore applied the first treatment on April 14th. The plan is that they will come out in three weeks and make application. John discussed a study the army core of engineers did, at 6-6-and 3 parts be million. The study went 56 days in between applications. The company said they would do a third application. John discussed the idea of three treatments at 6-6-6 at a cost of $930. John said we can wait on that decision as time goes along. So, if the weeds are going down, then we wouldn’t need a third application. The concentration of the application has always been 6 parts. We’ve contracted for two treatments. The Chemical is available for three treatments. The fee right now is $3725 for two treatments with a third being another $930 more. The board decided to wait and see the difference as far as the two treatments. The treatments are the 14th of April, the 5th of May. John will check on May 12th to see if the weeds are being affected. If they are affected we will not need a third treatment.

The board discussed if we are going to do a stocking of the lake this year. John will investigate stocking the lake. John said the cost last time was around $1,000. John said we’ll go back and look at the fish survey report and see what the recommendations are. Brian brought up ecoli testing. John said there is a kit that we can get to do the testing. Brian said we should do three times a year, especially if we have a large run-off. John said he has students he could employ to do the tests.

Architectural Committee:

Jeff said there are letters he will follow-up on. Lance brought up the idea about the village cutting the trees that was done really poorly. The trees that were cut down, Brian said were invasive species. Lance said it looks horrible. Brian said the growth will come back. Jeff said a guy called about doing a fence on the side and the back because he lives on Hwy C. Fences were allowed on “C.” Jeff discussed the idea of adding a regulation about adding a fence along HWY “C.” John said we need to look at the reason for the fences. We should be careful about letting fences slide. The board discussed the fence idea as to what should be and should not be allowed. There is a fence in the back but not on the side. His three neighbors have fences on the side. John suggested that he bring his plan to the board.

Web site-Technology committee:

Dan said that river-oaks.org was accepted with a domain cost at $146.70 for a ten year host fee. The board voted and approved the website. Dan will register the site and code it. Dan discussed the construction of the site and what is going to be on the site. Bill discussed having a formal complaint process. There was a discussion about the formats and how to post different things. Dan said he will develop and bring to the board a sample, and text.

The parking sticker idea was discussed. There were reasonable prices for vinyl window mirror hangers. The board discussed a sticker for windshields as well as review mirror hanger. Lance discussed about having multiple parties at the park, and then what do we do for passes etc. Such as if someone rents the pavilion. Brian brought up the idea of a sign that says permitted parking only. Dan Noah will do the design of the stickers and the hangers.

Old Business

John brought up that one garbage receptacle at the lake always blows open. John said as the summer comes on we had talked about the garbage service at the park. If we have a big can, a Village one, the guys from the village will pick it up. Lance said he will call John Steinbrink to see if we can a supersized trash receptacle.

Greg discussed doing the covenants and bylaws. Board members will review the draft Greg did and will make changes. We have a volunteer, Chloe, who will retype and do. The board approved posting the by-laws and covenants on the web site and not doing a hard copy.

New Business:

The board set the remaining board meetings as follows:

May 12th-Lance’s house

June 9th– John Skalbach’s house.

July-skip

August 11th-Dan Noah (cigar night)

September 15th-Jim Le Sage

October 13th-Ron Kwasny

November-Annual meeting.

December-skip

All meetings begin at 7:30.

The meeting was adjourned at 9:40 PM.

RIVER OAKS ASSOCIATION BOARD MEETING

MAY 19, 2011

Board members present were: Jeff Bloxdorf, Greg Bass, Jim Lesage, Brian Conway, John Skaalback, Dan Noah.

VP Jeff Bloxdorf called the meeting to order at 7:30 PM.

The minutes of the April Meeting were approved with no changes or exceptions.

Treasurer’s report-Given by Bill Stoebig:

Cash Position

Checking account          $ 12,403.64

Business MM account   $  5,312.93

Total                 $ 17,716.57

Outstanding Bills

Lawn Service                 $          789.00

Lake spraying                $       3,500.00

Total                 $      4,289.00

Dues Paid

Approximately 56 members remain unpaid – approximate in the sense that I just received a mail drop of about 25 envelopes yesterday.  Of those who paid two members have remitted partial payments of $100 and $75 – I guess the increase is a challenge.  Second requests for payment will go out next week.

The first attachment is the checking account payment register listing all payments and deposits from January 1st.  The second attachment are comments accompanying the payments for Board review.

As to other comments, I have been contacted regarding opposition or displeasure on the increase from Tom Wrona, Tom Petrusky, and Mike Harmon.  One other note I was contacted re: the King residence (the house you would drive into at the main entry way if you were to proceed straight ahead) – neighbor lodged noise complaint and number of vehicles parked on street – anyone know what’s going on here?  This house was for sale at one time – was it sold or is it being rented?

Finally, I have retained the help of an accountant from Jockey to keep up on the bookkeeping – I agreed to compensate her $25.00/hour – if anyone feels this is too much please let me know and I’ll hand over the checkbook to you!

Regards,

Ron

Ron Kwasny

Vice President & Treasurer

(scanned in from email from Ron)

Jim Lesage discussed the idea that if you want to rent a house, you have to go through Dept. Industry and housing. Jim went through a number of items regarding what DILR requires and we discussed if these houses are being rented if they have satisfied the DILR requirements. It appears that the board thinks the house is currently being rented. We do not have authority as to parking and restrictions on parking, it is the village issue. John has an invoice, from Hey & Associate for $100 from January 2010. We will check on this if the King residence. Dan noted they had trucks and trailers parked there for quite a few days. Jeff said we’re looking for chronic offenders. John just said to keep an eye on it. The Village will be contacted.

As to the hiring of an accountant to do the accounting help, Jeff said we’ve never had that before. Also, John said that doing that would open up a real can of worms. Greg made a motion to table the discussion regarding the accountant. John seconded the motion and the board approved to table the discussion until the June meeting at John’s house.

Committee Reports:

  1. Lake Committee:

John said we had our treatment begin this year on April 14 with a second application on April 28th, John had sent around an email prior to the meeting about the option for a third application. The idea came from trying to replicate a study from the army of engineers, elongating treatment process. John queried people and receive authorization to do third treatment. They found the plant growth was small. The plants were degraded, therefore they only applied ½, 3ppd, so John thinks it will really take care of invasive plant growth in the lake. They said they were just going to charge us for chemical, not labor. John feels we got a pretty good treatment for a good price. The history is that John said this April was the earliest we had ever treated. May 19 falls in line with second treatment history. In 2009, we started on May 12, the year before the first treatment was May 1. The second treatments have been in the sedon week of May. The early treatment really did the trick-Jeff said it appears it works with the water temp below 50 degrees. So, Brian feels that the lake temp was 50+. We started whole lake treatment in 2005 in the Fall that was when we had Milfoil. We then did it in Sept and October of 2005 and in the spring since 2006. Jeff said he feels we absolutely treat next year. John said that if you do it early, you should eradicate in three or four years. Evidently, we have been treating late every year. John said that by monitoring the lake, and that we ought to be on the safe side. The plant is curly leaf pond weed. Jeff said, if you don’t treat every year the plant will come to the top. John said the length of time of the treatment is the key and beginning early. John said turnons viable in the lake for three to four years. Jeff said, we didn’t knock this down until June last year, the plants were on the surface for three weeks. So this is first year we didn’t have seeds. Greg discussed just being on the safe side and do the treatment again next year. Everyone agreed. John said that that was the safest precaution. Jim suggested that we do it next year and one more year to make sure. John said that we need to do shortly after the ice is off the lake-mid April. The bottom of the lake is mud, the beach sand was imported.

John looked over the fish reports. The only thing that was any bit of a strong recommendation was to add blue gils that were larger than 6 inches. The blue Gills were small because the predatory fish were eating them. Jeff said they put in hybrid Blue Gills in the past, but it appears that they have been eaten up. We normally spend $1,000 on a mix. So we could say give us a $1,000 of Blue Gills at around $1.00 a piece. John said we should leave the large predatory fish in the lake. He said there are Northern Pike and Muskie in the lake. Jeff made a motion to spend a $1,000 to put in 6 inch Blue Gill, Dan seconded the motion. The motion passed unamiously.

John also said he was going to start doing more aggressive data collecting. He said he would be collecting water samples for Ecoli. John said he thought its time to do that data collecting now that we have the invasive plants under control. The lake depth average is 6 feet. There are depths of 12 feet.

  1. Roads and Grounds: Brian said the new light is up, and Dan said that it is not too bright. Brian said that his guys were going to do more work on the entry. The ladies are still organizing, and the shrubs were torn out. Brian said that the new planting will begin next week. Brian said we might be due for some sand. Brian said replacing the playground equipment is part of the long term plan. He said we have enough mulch and wood chips there. John said there is nothing major at the park. Jeff said, we did have wild flowers, but the village wiped them out and encouraged weeds to grow. Brian said we talked about a prairie restoration to come out and do a burn of the long grass. Brian said that will be a winter project for next spring.
  2. Architectural control committee: Jeff said the man who wants to do the fence couldn’t make the meeting. But he did send along an explanation of what he wanted to do. He is asking for nothing different than what his neighbors already have. Jeff said there has been an exemption for highway C. They did the sides as well, and there was not commentary or issue therefore, we should allow him to do the fence. Jeff suggested we put in a regulation that there is an exemption of the fence rule for along highway C. John said he’d be in favor of just leaving things for people to request as to being reasonable. The exposure is if someone along highway C wants to put up a fence saying that it is reasonable. Because of what the covenants already say, the board decided to do based on reasonableness. Jeff said, he will go around and view if there are trailers, that are chronic issues. What we’ll do is note what is here now, and we’ll do letters in a week.
  3. Website. Dan said the website is developed and he is in the process of tweeking. He’ll have the link done, it’s up and it’s registered. You can send an email at “board@riveroak.com. He said there’s just a few more things. He said its 75% done. Jeff asked when we can go live. Dan said hopefully in a three or so weeks. By June board meeting it should be ready to go. Greg discussed reviewing the by laws, covenant rewrite, and putting that on the web. Greg discussed redoing a printed directory. We will have a discussion about the restricted access. People will be able to interact on the message board. The board decided to allow the message board and we’ll watch to see what happens. John said we’ll have a place for people to contact the board. Dan said we’ll also have a message chat room. Dan said let me flush out some ideas, then we’ll look at at the next meeting. John asked, do we need to be the vehicle to have a neighborhood chat, if we allow that, then we become responsible for the results. Dan said we can from one direction very restricted all the way to an open forum. Dan said he will have a fully functional site and we’ll decide what we want it to have on it.

Old Business:

  1. The tags are not prepare yet, Dan said he’s still working on that. Work through some design ideas. Jeff said we decided that we’ll have a hanging tag, for residents we’ll have a decal for all association members. Greg asked are we going to have more than one decal for family. Jim suggested two per household with two guest tags. Jeff said the issue is all about enforcement. Jim discussed towing, he has a towing contract from Jensen. The contract was approved by the board. John made a motion to sign contract, Jeff seconded the motion, and the board approved the contract Jensen & Jenson towing and recovery. There essentially no cost in the contract. Brian said the board got a certified letter from Kenosha County. The Letter said we have a lean, the Federal government has a lean, the state has a lean, all for back taxes. Brian said the park light, he said he repaired it and said there was someone he knew that would want to buy. We decided that we’d sell the lamp and put the money towards the fish purchase.
  2. Greg discussed getting the directory out, by cross referencing. He will have done by June meeting.

New Business

Jeff discussed the 4th of July parade. Those things are organized by the same ladies who organize the June 4th Garage Sale.

The meeting was adjourned by Jeff 9:30

RIVER OAKS ASSOCIATION BOARD MEETING

June-July-August Meeting

AUGUST 11, 2011

Board members present were Bill Stoebig, Brian Conway, Dan Noah, Jeff Bloxdorf, Jim LeSage and Greg L. Bass.

Bill Stoebig began the meeting at 7:45.

The minutes were discussed, and the treasurers were report was discussed. Ron was not present to provide a Treasurer’s report.

The minutes were approved.

Treasurer’s Report:

The question we need to get from Ron are what payments are outstanding. Ron is having someone doing the books. We are unsure if Ron is paying the assistant out of the River Oak’s funds. Jeff volunteered to get in touch with Ron to discuss the treasury and where we are at as well if he is going to continue to do the treasury. Bill will email him so we can get a treasury report. I will add the report on a retrospective basis.

Committee Reports:

Roads and Grounds: We did get the big garbage disposal. Brian put the additional on his garbage pick-up. Brian chained and secured it. We will pay Brian the cost of the additional unit. The planting of entry was completed. Brian said people who volunteered didn’t follow through. Brian and his family did the planting, and did work at the park. Brian also did some work at the park. He billed Ron and Ron did pay him. Jim talked about the need to have the electrical outlet fixed. Brian said the lawn mower guy hit it. Jim suggested that new mulch be brought in under the swings and playground equipment, as well as new sand. Brian said we need a buy five or six bags of sand or use some from the beach. Jim said the beach is a bit mucky. He said he was going to do some work at the beach and move some sand from the beach to the boxes. Brian said that when the website is up and running, we can do the pavilion scheduling on the site. It will be first come first serve. The only thing that needs to be blocked out is the 4th of July, and the participants are funding that and taking care of it. Jan Brandis is the person organizing. The association sanctions the 4th parade and picnic every year.

Lakes Committee:

A third treatment was done and paid for at cost of product. Jeff said that he was informed plants are at the weakest in February. So he suggested that we treat the lake again next year as early as possible. Bill said Zebra Mucsles have been coming back. John Skalback was not at the meeting. John told bill that the “clapper” should be kept down during the summer. The lake is down a foot and half. The suggestion was that we should keep the gate down in order to keep the Lake artificially high. Jeff discussed that keeping the gate closed would keep the lake high for the summer. If a torrential rain hits, it can cause a flooding of a couple of decks. A discussion about keeping the gate closed for just the summer took place. Jim discussed that people are using to water lawn. Jeff discussed closing it May 1. Brian talked about when we had big rains so the river wouldn’t come in. Jim said if you close it, and a big rain happens, then the lake goes up. Jeff want ed to have it closed for a year. Jim suggested that we test it for a year, and keep the gate closed for a year and see what happens. Brian said, the gate has been closed. Jim said the lake is really low right now. Jim talked about how you measure it. Brian talked about the water level comparable to the culvert. Brian said six inches above the culvert bottom. Jeff made a motion that the gate should be kept closed unless the water level achieves six inches above the bottom of the culvert. Brian seconded the motion. The motion passed.

Architectural committee:

Jeff said he surveyed the area and did not find a lot of trailers, however, he said that he did notice a lot of steel gazebo’s . Jeff said he would send out a letter to the members who have a temporary steel gazebo’s. Jeff said he would email the secretary a copy of the letter. Jim said that some trailers that have always been there, are still there. Jim said that a number of people are living in the house. Jim discussed that the trailers are chained to the house. Brian discussed the complaint about the political signs. A member complained about the sign because the board made him take his sign down. Greg was volunteered to do a flyer about general issues that in the covenants, gazebo’s, trailers, etc. He will send to the board for approval before sending out to members.

WEBSITE: TECH:

Dan showed the website to the board. The address is:

www. river-oaks.org.

The site is up and ready to be viewed. Greg suggested to do an announcement in the flyer about the website. The board will review the website and give Dan an approval.

OLD BUSINESS:

The directory is done. Greg said the directory is done. Bill advised that we should get a printed directory done and then send out with the dues notification in December.

Tags for the mirror tags, Dan showed the design and the board approved. Dan said we could have them numbered. Two tags for each household. A discussion was held about the static tags. So, the board approved doing the mirror tags only. We will also have signs done, that Dan showed that we can put up that indicate to people that the lake is private and cars will be towed unless you have a sticker. The company we selected for towing is Jensen Towing company. The board discussed that towing a car needed a board member approval. Jim suggested we put up the signs about towing a car for non-member persons using the lake. The board approved purchasing two signs and putting them up at each end of the parking lot as soon as possible. Jensen will put the signs up. Dan said the tough tags with printing on the back as to the rules for putting up the tags-the cost will be $640. The board approved. The board will not buy additional signs, we will use the Jensen signs for now.

New Business:

Jeff brought up the issue of the Cattails. There was a discussion about whether they are good or bad. Brian said that the lake engineers indicated that there are positives and negatives. Around the island they can good to keep the geese down. But around properties they create a mess. There is a herbicide that can be used. There are people who cut them down. Brian said that spraying them with the approved herbicide will be the best. Jim suggested and it was approved that we look into notifying the association members about methods to eradicate the cattails.

The meeting was adjourned at 9:30. The next meeting is on September 15 at Lance’s house.

River Oaks Board Meeting September 22, 2011

Bill opened the meeting at 7:30 with a discussion regarding a letter from Ken Lehman regarding an issue about the height of the Lake. A discussion was held, because Ken believed the new gate that was put in was related to the lake level which cause the river level to go over his rock landscaping. The gate could be used to control the Lake level but has not been done so in the past. Minutes from the last meeting were reviewed as to John’s suggestion that we keep the gate closed to keep the lake level higher. However the board has not decided as to whether or not to use the gate to control the level of the lake. Ron brought up that perhaps Ken’s landscaping may have been built beyond the survey limits, therefore, the natural rise and fall of the lake in the spring caused the encroachment on Ken’s property. Brian said that it takes a week or so for the lake to go back down when we have a time of heavy rains. Bill suggested that he would call him and discuss the issue and explain that the gate was not a cause for the lake levels and the board has not yet made a decision as to how it will use the gate to control the lake levels.

  1. The minutes from the prior meeting were approved.
  2. Treasurers report: Income, $28,600. We have received 143 dues payments. The expense lines total was $16,472.98. That included a charge for legal and professional fees that were for Ron’s hiring assistance to do the treasury. That means we have a remaining positive cash flow of $!2, 127. We still have 11 unpaid dues which means we have a total of 154 dues paying units. At the beginning of the year we have $7751. We now have in the money market, $17,686.78. We are owed $3250 in past dues. $1050 are from past years. Ron sent out third request to the list of people. The board went over the past dues and who owes what amounts. Greg suggested that a letter be issued to the late pays who are at $325 or more, or more than one year of dues pay. Ron said he will contact the county clerk about filing a lean against the property. The board has filed a lean on one property that has been consistently behind in dues payments. The board had a discussion about assessing an outsource budget. Ron brought this up in regards to the amount of treasury work required now to do the treasury work. Greg suggested establishing a budget amount for all outsourcing. Bill asked if it would be possible to get someone to do it for $10-$15 an hour. Bill suggested that we set a budget and then build on it. Dan suggested that we set a budget for contracted resources. Greg suggested that we set a budget at 100 hours at $15 an hour or $1500. Bill suggested that we keep a data base of updated addresses. Dan suggested that he will create a link by parcel site so that we can get a continual update whenever changes occur. Dan motioned that the board budget $1500 for contracted resources. Greg seconded the motion. Brian advised the we should table the motion. There was a discussion as to putting a definition around the issue of contracted resources. The board decided to table the motion.
  3. Committee reports:
  4. Roads and Grounds: Brian gave the report about the chemical for killing the plants along the shoreline that will not harm other plants and yards is called Rodeo. It has no effect on fish or aquatic life. Ron does not like the use of chemicals. Brian said we might need to take some action, so he looked into what might be done. There is a product available for the eradication of cattails that is not harmful. Brian repaired the electric outlet at the park. The new light also works really well.
  5. Architectural: Jeff was not present.
  6. Technical-Dan talked about the progress on the website. Dan said he would like to have the site done by the annual meeting. So the announcement can be made. If there is any documents, he would like them. Same thing with the passes, the mirror passes. Ron brought up demonstrating the website at the annual meeting. Brian asked a number of association members to examine the website. The feedback was very positive. Dan said he would do a flyer about the announcement of t he website. The flyer will encompass the annual meeting, the website announcement and be sent with dues notification. The board discussed the board’s access to the site through www. River-oaks.org and the board is www.board@river-oaks .com. Dan said he was going to finalize the mirror and tags as well.
  7. Lakes: Report that came from John, that report will appear here. The board moved to table the report until October meeting.

OLD BUSINESS: We are not going to post the directory on the website. Bill called the towing company. The towing company, Jensen Towing and Recovery will put up two signs. Based on their recommendation they’ll put up the signs. We can call, anyone can call the towing company. The board will intend board members and designated people. Someone must be there when the towing comes. Bill recommended that we provide the towing company with a list of designated people.

New Business: The next meeting date will be October 13-Thursday at Ron’s house. The annual meeting will be held on November 10th the second Thursday of the month.

The next meeting we will decide what has to be done at the annual meeting.

The meeting was adjourned at 9:10.

River Oaks Board Meeting-October 20, 2011

The meeting was called to order at 7:30 by President Bill Stoebig.

  1. The minutes of the October were Amendmened by striking the language that indicated that the board had not done anything to control the levels of the lake. The minutes were approved as amended.
  2. Treasurers report: The total income for the year was $27,000. After expenses we have $2315.55 and the money market has $15,315.39. Ron has $325 yet to be deposited as a result of dues payment. Unpaid bills, $1014 in unpaid bills. $2650 is still owed for dues. 10 residents still owe dues. Ron contacted the county clerk as to filing of leans. The county essentially said that we would have to file such leans on our own. Leans must placed by an attorney. The board discussed who we should call about discussing with an attorney the process. Greg discussed with Ron and Bill that we send out a letter from the board advising that we will place a lean on their properties. Ron is going to contact small claims and Bill will contact the attorney . We discussed the method in which to do this. The board decided to wait until the next billing date to pursue. We will amend the next billing cycle letters.

III.E

A: Lakes: John submitted a report. John does not have a new report. We once again reviewed Ken Lehman’s letter. John addressed the situation with Lehman regarding the high level of the lake. John wanted to clear up is that we closed the gate for the treatment, and the treatment went for 8 weeks. After the treatment, John opened the gates. John wrote a letter asking about the gate. John’s position is that the gate should be open. The purpose is for treatment and back flow if the river was high. The other members of the board wanted to keep the lake higher, so the gate was closed and therefore the lake was up. John’s position was that the culvert was engineered and peop e’s landscaping around that level. Then we put the gate in, therefore do we want to be responsible for the manipulation of the lake. The purpose during treatment is to keep other waters from contamination. The treatment period was April 14 thru July 9th. Brian said when he closed the lake in the spring, the river was very high in order to prevent river back flow into the lake. When he closed it it was 10 inches above the bottom of the culvert. Then the gate was opened again before the treatment. John’s point is that if close the gate, then the water is high, and someone complains the problem is with us-the board. The normal level Brian said, is the bottom of the culvert, and we should open it when the water gets 6 inches or higher. John said then monitoring level is on us, then if someone experiences damage the liability is on us. Jeff said he believes that it is overstated, he believes that if we have a tool to manipulate the lake we should use it. Brian said that the water was high due to storms and rain. John said we have liability. Ron said we should just let nature take its course. Jeff argued we should use the tool to manipulate the level of the lake in order to keep the lake clean and useable when we have drought. Jeff talked about keeping the lake a little higher for weed control. Brian talked about the water level being higher in the spring. John suggested that we avoid liability by just keeping the gate open except during treatment. Lance asked about if there is an easement. Ron argued that we allow the lake to be on its own without The

John said landscaping around the lake was based on the level of the culvert, if we change that then we have issues of liability. Brian suggested we bring up the control of the lake at the annual meeting. The question is to expand the use of the gate to control the level of the lake. Jeff suggested that that was one of the purposes of the lake. Jeff made a motion to expand the use the gate to control the level of the lake and monitor the level. The level should be kept at no more than 6 inches higher than the culvert bottom level except during treatment when it may be higher as required by the DNR. This control should be used during treatment as well as during the summer. The board will monitor the lake for two reasons for treatment of the lake and to maintain at a height of no more than 6 inches above the culvert. The board will revisit a year from now at the September meeting to determine if the practice should be continued. The motion passed 5 to 2 with Skalbach and Bass opposing.

John said he was going to contact a fishery about stocking the lake.

IV: Roads and grounds: Brian has a list of changes to be made at the park. Those changes will be discussed at the annual meeting. The Towing sign is up and looks good. Jensen towing put up a sign. Bill signed the towing contract.

V: Architectural: Jeff sent out letters to people that have six sided gazebos with screens, there were six people. Jeff also sent a letter to a guy on the river who had a trailer there for over a year. None of the tents or gazebos have been taken down.

Ron said that King had leased the building, the people living there have moved out. The house is in foreclosure action.

Vi: Tech Committee: Dan made revisions on the website. He wants to get a projector-Greg has one. Dan said he needs information for the flyer. www.river-oaks.org

The email is board@river-oaks.org is our new email address. The meeting minutes were uploaded. Dan also uploaded the by laws. Greg will send the covenants so Dan can upload those as well. The site will not allow commentary on the site. The site will be informational only.

Old Business: The annual meeting. Items on the annual meeting agenda:

  1. October meeting.
  2. Treasury Report-budget
  3. Committee reports
  4. Old business:
  5. Leans on properties in River Oaks
  6. Commentary
  7. New business:

River Oaks Website

Towing policy

Parking permits-Lake

Proposed projects-Park-renovations

  1. Solicit volunteers for park equipment project-select and buy new

Equipment.

  1. Election of new officers and soliciting board members.

Park: Brian discussed how long it has been since the park was built. He presented a a list of renovations that need to be done. We’ve been dumping wood chips for years. It’s formed a humus, that is composting. It needs to be dug out and a new layer put down. The sand needs to renewed, The swings need to be replaced. Painting needs to be done. There is painting that needs to be done. There needs work to be done at the beach. There needs more sand at the beach. We should eliminate the cattails. The pavilion needs to be stained and update of the wood trim. The boat storage area needs clean up, by eliminating cattails and putting in more pea gravel. We should expand the storage area. Brian discussed installing a cantilevered deck and railing for a fishing point. We should use pressure treated pine. We also need to prune some trees in the area. We can’t have piers in the water, but we can have a deck that is out over the water. Ron brought up the island and the entrances. We set aside a budget of $13,000 to update the park and playground. We will solicit volunteers for the park project.

The meeting was adjourned at 10:00 PM.

River Oaks Association

Annual Meeting

November 10-2011

Members attending the meeting: Board: Bill Stoebig, Ron Kwazny, Brian Conway, Jim Lesage, Lance Mazzolini, Dan Noah, John Skalbeck, Jeff Bloxdorg, and Greg Bass. Other members: Steve Hein. Tom Bain, Don Kaelber, Yvonne Kaelber, Ginni Fennemea, and Paul Fennemea.

A presentation was given by the village administer. He indicated that the mill rate would be changing from .3995 to .401 per thousand. He also indicated that they had a tremendous need for volunteer fire fighters. They now have fewer people to rely on. He said they’re adding 7 new fire fighters with 5 new people in the station that services River Oaks. The majority of their calls are paramedics and they want to be able to service within 4 minutes of a call. The major incidents are traffic related.

In River Oaks there was a new high capacity generator put in. It is hooked into the natural gas. Also, the sewer service has been changed by disconnecting us from the same system as Chateau. The C bridge is designed for the ultimate build out of Abbot Labs. The new hwy 50 exchange will not be as big. The new trail will be done up to hwy C from Springs Park. The path will be a 10 foot path by the river. It will be a new bike path all the way to prairie springs park. When it is all done the bike path will allow riders or hikers to make a big loop all the way from hwy C down through the park. The Prairie Ridge shopping center was sold to a new developer. They expect new developments there. A lot of new businesses are looking to go into this shopping area. The budget was difficult due to losing half its shared revenue. The biggest cuts will be in services such as road paving and hiring of other vehicles to plow when we have larger storms. The bike path connection will once its done, go all the way to KR. Lance asked about maintenance of stop lights. The issue is on highway 50, it is a county light. There is discussion about improvements such redirecting CTY H and development on 39th ave. He said that the roundabouts have been effective on 165. They’re talking about roundabouts on H. There has been significant storm drainage in Chateau which affects us. They are looking at putting a regional basin towards the river. They are trying to eliminate flooding from large storms, they are looking at doing land acquisition. It’s a big project, around $3,000,000 and they’re trying to get grants to get it accomplished. The innovation center, a feasibility study was done, they want to do the science center, but even though they’re going to get $3 million it’ll take $7 or more million.

The meeting was started at 7:40 by Bill Stoebig. The minutes were reviewed and approved.

Committee reports:

LAKES: John Skalbeck

  1. John discussed the whole lake treatment process and what we did last year as recommended by the army corps of engineers. We took control of the aquatic plants and we’ll continue. We also monitor and test for water quality. We’ll continue to do that. Our tests this last year were fine. John said we will continue test the water for quality. He said we’ll focus on water clarity. He discussed the fish stocking. He said we had a hold due to a virus. But now, based on an electro-shock treatment, we will be taking recommendations and planting fish next week. We have experienced good management over the last couple of decades.
  2. Roads and Grounds:

Brian discussed Roads and Grounds. He said that he reviewed the park. The park is 14 years old . He discussed the condition of the playground area. We will be repainting, removing all the mulch with new hardwood chips, and new playground equipment. He said we want to form a committee to put in new equipment in 2013. Eliminating cattails, upgrading the beach area, new painting on the roof. We will be expanding the boat storage area. Eliminating cattails so we can expand that area. We will be looking at building a fishing deck area. We budgeted $12,750. The playground equipment will be budgeted for 2013. We are looking for people who will volunteer to be on playground committee. Brian said the pavilion reservations will be done on-line. People will be able to go on-pine and make those reservations. The electric is on all the time. Brian said some people can leave their boats there year around. There was a question about a new light. WE energies was hired to replace the light. Brian said we have a contract with WE energies to take care of the light. Ron said that board responds to the voice of the home owners. We don’t sit as a group and drive projects. The number of items are maintenance related. We have a so-so response from the survey. So, if there are any things that people have a response for. Ron said we’d like to have some young couples serve on the playground equipment committee so we can get input from those who have children.

  1. Architectural Committee:

Jeff said we’re not really aggressive unless the violations are blatant. He said we sent out letters about those issues. We’re only concerned about blatant issues as to trailers and roofed buildings. We’ve also approved fences along hwy C. He said as far as those structures with screens and roofs, we’ll see what happens. Jeff said that if you see anything and have issues, please do so through the website. Jeff said we sent out another letter. We may have to do attorney letters. Bill discussed the issue of delinquent bills that may be an attorney issue. The question was asked about covenant violations with enforcement. Bill said we’ve had a number of discussions about that. Bill said we need come up with a game plan with the attorney in mind. Jeff said as far as the dues go, we just put a lean on the property. Jeff said other subdivisions . Greg discussed the rewrite of the covenants, bylaws and regulations.

IV: Technology: Dan discussed putting together a website and all the contents on the website. Dan discussed that the website is searchable as to the covenants, by-laws, regulations. There will also be a community calendar. The bookings as to park use can also be put on the site. We do have an email address now, www.board@river-oaks.org. Dan explained how members can communicate through that email. Dan discussed that we can also use the site for photo’s and discussion sites. He said the intent is to be a communication site for all the membership. We had considered doing a post out, but determined that the email address was the best and the rest of the site was primarily a communication site. Bill said we discussed putting the directory out there, but decided against that. Bill said we had two or three different data basis. Greg has assembled that into a new directory. Greg discussed the consequences and opportunities of the directory and what it might be.

V: Treasury Report:

B Ron handed out a treasury report. He discussed the positive news that we have a very positive reserve even after payment of expenses. He reviewed the 2011 budget. Those highlights were membership count is 144 excluding the Lehman property. The budget last year, we wanted to have a cash infusion of $9,000 that would allow us to have a $7500 contingency fund. The 2012 budget projection. He said we have a few expenses, we are forecasting a cash generation of $9080 with $16,743 as a starting fund with a contingency fund of $7500 leaving a project fund of $9,243. Ron said realtors do a good job of contacting him regarding the dues. Ron said that there is one household which is severely in arrears. There may be a motion going on and we will be discussing with realtor. We are investigating filing leans. A question was asked how many dollars are tied up in delinquencies. Ron said about $2600 is tied up in delinquencies. $1800 relates to this year. The Freyer property is over $500. The second highest is the King property which was leased. Ron tracked the owner and was told the property is in the hands of the bank. The property is now vacant after the lease ran out.

The 2012 forecast, Ron said he retained assistance to do the work. Ron said he needs assistances in maintaining books, and helping with the accounting. He said the variation in grounds and lawn service where we saw a reduction. The Lake management, we did a lake survey and we will be lake stocking of fish. That may fall into next year’s budget. The 2012 budget included a donation from Ken and Priscilla Lehman. The operating expenses for next year, we need a cushion, because we never know what our actual expenses will be such as in roads and grounds. The 2012 budget, we will generat $9955, added to our ending cash position will give us a cash position of $26,698 of which we will maintain a contingency fund. So, we have a little leeway on doing projects. The contingency fund is things that we just don’t know. A question was asked as to overall response as to the increase in dues. Bill said we have one lady who was concerned-but she was okay after the discussion.

A question was asked about the house that is built deeply in wooded and river area, so the only option they had was to add them. Ron said adding them would be a can of worms. Jeff said we asked the two houses on Hwy C and they declined.

A motion was made to approve the 2012 budget, and it was approved unanimously.

OLD BUSINESS:

Bill discussed the regulations regarding the lake and the mirror tags for residents and guess passes to be used for lake access. If any one sees a car that is not supposed to be there, we can give Jensen Towing a call. We don’t have to approach any person who is there. Bill said the problem exists during ice fishing, so we’re implementing this. So there will be mirror tags. Theoretically, people have a right to be on the water, however, we own the property where the cars are parked, so we have the right to tow the cars. There was a question about the liability. As long as it is posted there is no liability. There was a discussion as to the liability of having cars towed and damage done while the car is being towed. A question was posed as to where the sign was posted. Bill said that Jensen said that posting one sign in the middle of the parking lot was adequate. Bill said, that the board will discuss putting up another sign. A member said that they had to put up the ordinance. Ron said, the intention is that Jensen be the second contact. Bill said that Jensen requires a person be present, with board authority to tow a car. Bill said ideally we want to send out with the dues notices. A suggestion was made that we don’t provide the mirror tags unless the dues are paid.

Bill asked about other topics.

ELECTION OF OFFICERS:

There are four members who are up for election. Bill indicated that Jeff and Greg will continue on the board, so that we now have two vacancies. Dave Hildred also said he would be interested. Nominations were taken on the four members, all were voted and elected. Greg Bass, Jeff Bloxdorf, Jim LeSage and Dave Hildred. The board will be as follows: Bill Stoebig, Ron Kwazny, Jeff Bloxdorf, John Skalbeck, Greg Bass, Jim LeSage, Brian Conway, Dan Noah, and Dave Hildred.

The meeting date for the first January meeting for 2012 is going to be January 19, 2012.

The Meeting was adjourned at 8:40